But the state always denies it, and none of us know why they deny it. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. Peter Biello: Yeah some of what she was saying sounds like it would require getting pretty close or at least having a nice zoom lens right Sam like. Caller: Yeah I hadn't experienced blastoff fall so this was around September and I was driving from Webster into Concord on Horse Hill Road and anybody in the area would know I was right near the Red Barn and all of a sudden this animal jumps out of the woods and it bounded across the road in about two two giant leaps and stopped in the field just on the other side. I noticed it had a really big sweeping tail that kind of curled up behind it and all but still at that point because everyone says there's no mountain lions here. nh.gov | privacy policy | accessibility policy I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. I've actually had to walk in on one or two now and look at what was going on and figured out what was going on. But before I go any further I want to say we do not have sufficient game. Thanks for taking my call. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. Numerous scat and fur specimens have been turned in as part of mountain lion report investigations; DNA identification has shown these submitted samples to be from domestic dog, coyote, bobcat andraccoon. The term is because mascots notwithstanding right that they're referred to with a lot of different terms and sometimes they can be confused with a lot of different terms. When they were landing or taking off and it seems like it's been there for like. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. Let's look for other evidence. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. So I learned about what Rick just reported through a heart of heart of New Hampshire a letter and. She quotes a biologist in Lyme New Hampshire who who is keeping two mountain lions himself so in the not too distant past in the early nineteen hundreds it was perhaps more common and still in Maine. The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. And really whenever you hear tiny code and long rope like tale it's kind of hard to pin this sighting on any other creature rather than an outline or just nothing else really matches that description. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. I really really enjoyed listening to this program so thank you all very much. Tell us your story. Rick van de Poll: Well education is the real important thrust of of what all of us do as biologists and Game Managers and to make sure that a things like what Sam was saying that in spite of what you believe the mountain lions will not eat your children they will not steal your pets from your backyard and they will not necessarily be seen by you unless you're extremely lucky. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. And listeners this has been a lively conversation we're sorry we didn't get to all the the e-mailed comments and the phone calls your stories are appreciated even if we didn't get a chance to hear them today. So give us a call now. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. Women control our lives. What's going on. Peter Biello: Wow. So Michael follows with the question. They kill big animals. However, dispersing western mountain lions have left evidence as close as Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York. Nicholas Handy can be reached at 924-7172 ext. Absolutely there are a lot of folks out there who for some reason need to create something that raises a stir and gets the attention of the media etc.. That's why we always go back to the physical evidence to support what they're reporting. Patrick Tate: So I agree with what Sam said in part that their ability to go undetected for amount of time but ultimately it was detected. Peter Biello: Let's talk to Ron and where Ron thanks very much for calling. In fact, Pat Tate concedes that hes been told of sightings from folks that he considers to be very credible, very woods savvypeople who know what a bobcat looks likebut those folks have never snapped a good photo or found a good track. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Mountain lions (especially males) have incredibly large ranges that they defend from rivals. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. By Eric Orff. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. About Us Media Kit Calendar of Events Volunteer Visit Learn Events Membership Support Your Visit BUY TICKETS Know Before You Go Directions and Information Our Animals Live Animal Exhibit Trail Hours and Admission Calendar of Events Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. Sandy Hodskins, owner of West Meadow Farm in Bradford, New Hampshire, took time from shoveling Wednesday to enjoy the snow with her horse, West Wind. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. And to anyone listening I would just say you know fishing game who wants proof right. Patrick Tate: Martin Like what about Panther Panther saying animals same animal and like a bit of trivia Guinness Book of World Records says the animal with the most names is in English alone they're supposedly 40 names for Mount lion. Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. How far were you from this cat. Give today. Listeners give us a call if you'd like. So Pat you field a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions. You know interactions are pretty unusual. Mike you're on the air. He told me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a tree. Course like Sue said you have to see it and it's not always that visible. So so do what you can get to do what you can to get proof. Patrick Tate: So it's very typical. And when provoked no animal could stand before him elegantly put. Since 1917, Lions clubs have offered people the opportunity to give something back to their communities. I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. 19 Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. Okay. Yes. Over a period of a year and a half, this Mountain Lion left DNA evidence in at least four states. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. Right. Ive received pictures of dogs at odd angles, says Tate. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. We're gonna talk about sightings in this part of the program as well we'd love to hear your story. Patrick Tate: So it's interesting it's brought up. Now Bobcat is a completely different species. Rick van de Poll: Well a report that you know as John Harrigan up north has in co-ops County for about 15 years I kept track of reports and people would call me and tell me where they saw the mountain lion they thought they saw it and it varied right from you know downtown villages all the way to remote highlands of the North Country and and everywhere in between. Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. I tracked cats and all the western states. Mountain lions leave a lot of sign. Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. Administrative Links. And that the Florida panther was more closely related to the eastern outline than the western mountain lion was. You're on the air. Its distinctive featurethe one that sets it apart from other North American wild catsis its tail, which is thick and often as long as its body. It traveled all the way from from you know Minnesota to New York without being so seen Patrick take. Mountain lions don't usually travel more than 100 miles from where they are born. Peter Biello: Yeah well what do you think Pat is. You treat it as if it's a sincere situation. We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. There was no sign of it. Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist thanks very much for being here this morning really appreciate it. That's too big for Bobcat. He said matter of fact I do. There'd be there'd be all sorts of you know basically a lot of hassle required if that were to happen. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. I would say that there's going to be the truth in here somewhere. So what a neat experience. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. I'll send it to you. John thanks. Gotcha, so the Deep State is suppressing mountain lion news in order to prop up New Hampshire tourism? Information that weed family automotive dot com sunny for today high temperatures low to mid 80s clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s tomorrow sunny highs in the upper 80s. As I tried to get a picture of it so there was it was definitely we looked up all the pictures and it was definitely not a bobcat or anything else being it looked just like a mountain lion. Like why would you want one wildlife. So they're scary. NHFG Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate identifies this cat as a bobcat. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. Sam Evans Brown. So that did it for me. A lot of times. No evidence and other states where Mountain lights have turned up. Post your sightings and NH photos here! HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. We actually have the largest subspecies of bobcat in the northern part of our state which they can get up to 40 and over 40 pounds which looks like an 80 pound the animal to visually and quite large. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. To date most of the pictures that have been sent in have been bobcats and other species Ive received pictures of house cats. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. Thanks very much. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. I've collected scat samples I've got several in my collection. If youve got photo trap evidence of a Mountain Lion, send it in, and we'll send it along to the appropriate state or federal agency! They create these scrapes where theyre communicating with each other with scent. Peter Biello: There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. Many people in New Hampshire have claimed to have seen mountain lions. There are mountain lion in Massachusetts. So I would put this in the category of sort of like shark attacks right. Mountain lions remain an enigmatic animal for residents of New Hampshire, with New Hampshire Fish and Game reporting three to five sightings per week. However if if and when it does happen it takes up a lot of resources looking at that situation and identifying what's going on because when you start out you don't know it's a hoax. Is this kind of a typical story. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. Are there Mountain Lions in NH? Tate said that while a mountain lion sighting in New Hampshire isn't likely, it's not impossible. I'm sorry go ahead you're on the air. Mountain Lions in NH. Today, their range stretches from the Yukon Territory in Canada along the western coast of the United States, all the way to the Southern Andes in Chile. Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. Really appreciate it. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. Reports without physical evidence are not dismissed, however Fish and Game cannot verify a sighting report without physical evidence. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. So we're fixated on natural but there's other possibilities. The book MAMMAL TRACKS & SIGN by Mark Elbroch has pictures of mountain lion scat found at a multiple beaver kill. Caller: Are probably. So we tossed these terms around but really the term subspecies has been sort of redefined in our lifetimes. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. When you talk about a bobcat Bobcat maybe 80 90 pounds and then a mountain lion could be between 130 and 180 pounds. Caller: Oh hi. The states never denied mountain lions are here, and theyve never admitted mountain lions are here. Mike thanks for your call. We want answers. But no proof was offered. One was in Shelton. I live pretty much on the town line of Greenfield just a couple of miles down in the Greenfield. For starters, part of the confusion might come from the fact that the eastern cougar was taken off the endangered species list earlier this year. Rick van de Poll: Well I didn't. So it is possible to see male Mountain lions roam into the northeast - there was one hit by a car in CT a number of years back - but we don't have a breeding population of Mountain lions in New England. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. Rick shaking his head so Rick now correct me please. And I think a lot of folks would like them to be around. It's bigger but bigger and better world. Patrick Tate: Yes. So I will just say this is a big reason why there have not been confirmed sightings I think is that the evidence required first. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. Pat ruse and he was sampling doing DNA samples from cats in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. You know I think it's there's a lady Holly Ernst out in California who has done a lot of the genotyping of mountain lions in Northern California the ones that are of course most people have heard about taking down hikers bikers etc. So. OK. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me.
